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2007 - Lust, Caution
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penny lane



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject:

i have been reading on this site for months now and just decided to register. very informative and was even surprised to learn that tony himself visit here.

thank you to all of you.

i saw this movie last week. i'm not used to seeing tony in that character but he was really good. the set was good. the costumes are good. the movie as a whole is good. i enjoyed it very much. i'll watch it again sometime.
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Info



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:12 pm    Post subject:

Japan: http://www.wisepolicy.com/lust_caution/

Korea: http://www.lustcaution.co.kr/

France: http://www.lustcaution-lefilm.com/

US: http://www.focusfeatures2007.com/

Taiwan: http://www.bvi.com.tw/movies/lust_caution/


Last edited by Info on Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:39 am; edited 2 times in total
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Info



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 4:00 am    Post subject:







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Raphael



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Paris-Metz

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:24 am    Post subject:

'Lust, Caution' will be previewed in France on Tuesday 15th January at UGC CinéCité Les Halles (8.30 pm). There were a few seats left on Friday. Smile

I was told there no star will attend though. Sad
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Raphael



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Paris-Metz

PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 11:45 pm    Post subject:

At the beginning of July, i was at Paris Opera to see 'Don Carlos' by Verdi.

at some point I got a bit bored... i had a long work day, the singing was good, the production so so. and there was no interlude between the last two acts. i just sighed and put up with it...

and suddenly i heard the music of 'Lust, Caution' rising from the orchestra pit ! ... it moved me deeply, for a few minutes my mind was in Shanghai in WWII with TL and Wei Tang !

actually i had read the main theme of the soundtrack came from this opera... but i had totally forgotten it.... when u think the aria is full of non reciprocal love, u guess why alexandre desplat thought of it.

it was a revealing experience for me... i mean i like opera mostly for music and singing performance, but twisted old stories often let me cold. they always play with eternal feelings and situations, nevertheless it's an antique kind of show. cinema has so much more emotional impact even if it's not 'live'...
and there just a few notes from a great movie took my breath away Smile
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Tony Obsessed



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 348
Location: Cornwall, England

PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject:

I have a question about this film although I haven't seen it and don't ever plan to either. Why would she love Yee when he was (from what I've heard) sadistic, cruel and violent towards her? Was she not completely sane or something? If I'm totally honest I find the idea of this aspect of the storyline perverse and shocking, especially that she would willingly die for a man like this.
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katwoman64



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 662
Location: roma, italy

PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:23 pm    Post subject:

What do we need to have a good story?
Sometimes, we don't need a story. Just a great storyteller and an even better performer.
This is the case of Ang Lee and Tony Leung's Lust, Caution. Tony is great, and I want to say as usual, but there's nothing usual in this performance. He travels an extreme way, a very difficult one.
The answer is not, why Tang Whatshername goes with Mr Yee: do you remember Hitchcock's Notorius? Well, let's just say that she is not Ingrid Bergman. The question is more, why such a handsome, charming, experienced and careful man has to lose himself after a no charme whatsover broomstick (and the costumes did nothing to better tings: she seems always dressed in a potato sack)! Maybe in the Eileen Chang story Yee was a typical middle aged man, ready to go for every young breathing thing, but Tony being Tony the thing is so so.
It is quite understandable that she is his for the taking. If a man like him puts his eyes on a very young woman, there's no chance in hell that she can escape. So it is the conclusion: being an impaired relationship, it is she who let down the pretence. She is doomed right from the start.
And no, I don't think that Tang W. was all that brave in taking this role. Who, being an actress and in her right mind can refuse the opportunity to work with the award winner director Ang Lee? Tell you, nobody.
Nonetheless, the film is well put together. Tony is more than great conveying violence barely suppressed under a charming veneer. His wife contribute well to the fake, suffocating atmosphere. All in all a great film.
Bye everyone
K
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Raphael



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Paris-Metz

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 3:25 am    Post subject:

'a no charme whatsover broomstick', 'dressed like a potato sack'... what unfair things to say!

I guess it's a matter of personal feeling but I find Tang Wei excellent and very convincing in this role. Her dresses suit her perfectly. Lai Pan didn't get the Best Costume Design golden horse for nothing. Tang Wei takes the demeanor of the Chinese upper class of this time, with a hint of reserve and distance that only adds to her pecular charm. I understand too well why Mr. Yee falls for this apparently very classic and very young lady whose beauty makes her stand out from his wife's friends and probably from other creatures thrown into his clutches. I'm naive enough to believe that their mutual attachement is sincere. It's true however that this relationship is doomed, but for both of them. She's just a false hope in his secluded life. It's desire vs. duty in some way, love impeded by history. I don't think Tang Wei was brave in taking the role but admirable in achieving it like she did given her little experience and the difficult scenes she had to go through.
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flavichu



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Mexico City, Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:38 am    Post subject: look at the clues

I think that the reasons they fell for each other are beyond their looks. True, both actors are good looking, but you really have to look beyond that and "listen" to the little clues in the movie.

SPOILER ALERT!!!!

We learn that her father is gone, so she doesn't have a strong male rolemodel in her life. Then, there are two scenes in the movies. Both times she chooses to watch a romance and in one we see her crying, so she is romantic at heart. The boy she likes, does not pay her any attention, except to ask her to murder this man. And we do not know she has really fallen for him until she gets the ring and tells him to run, and when you add it all up, well..., it was really because of her idea of romantic love, like that in the movies.

Why did he fall for her? She was a great actress, the scene where she moves the audience into standing up, arousing their patriotism tells us she is a natural, capable of making people do as wants. That's how she ensared him. And she says she will become his mistress, so she could make him fall in love.

So, in conclusion, I don't think it was real love what she felt, but part Electra Complex, part a romantic love ideal.
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Raphael



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Paris-Metz

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 1:59 am    Post subject:

Dear Flavichu,

I didn't try to define this 'attachement', but your remarks do make sense to me.

Btw I picked this on Wikipedia : I find the last cut with its political implications really disturbing. All the more so bc it's a beautiful scene where you can at last see Mr. Yee vulnerable, as a man in love, who doesn't understand at once what Wong Chia Chi whispers....

Quote:
The following scenes were cut from the mainland China version : 1) Wong Chia Chi walking past dead refugees in street, 2) Stabbing scene cut to only one knife stab, 3) Of the five sex scenes (two with student, three with Mr. Yee), the second one with student and the third with Mr. Yee, 4) Nude shot of Wong Chia Chi at window, 5) Wong Chia Chi on bed after first sex scene with Mr. Yee, 6) Dialogue modified in diamond ring scene so that Wong Chia Chi did not betray by warning Mr. Yee.
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katwoman64



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 662
Location: roma, italy

PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:39 pm    Post subject:

Sorry, I respect your different point of view.
All those scenes were in the italian version, but maybe there were other cuts on poignant moments. In my eyes Tang W. had just two expressions: with and without a frown. I find her not appealing. I'm not a man, maybe men can understand better.
So what? The film was very good. All the things about her being without father and being a great actress are told by the director. If you put her on stage and everybody stand up and shout and applaude, you have the impression that she is great.
It is merit of Ang Lee, of his pacing, of the way every shot oozes fear.
It is Tony that carries all the weight of the film on his shoulders, and gives us such a subtle performance. On the same track of the one in "Infernal Affairs", but dryer, more beguiling. He performs mostly without words. He doesn't speak a lot, and always just few sentences that say a thing while his body and face say another. There he explained himself sometimes, here there is no opening but the moments of sex. He really is "closed in". He decided long ago on wich side he is on, and does his job. There is no complacency in this, but he is a perfectionist. The audience knows that, if he was a horchid gardener, he will be the best. Being a prosecutor, he is the best. He is aware of his power, that is part of him like the color of his eyes, so he tells her that with him she is safe. He has very human emotions all repressed and is shattered inside. When he has to confront an old schoolfriend he paralizes and has to concoct a fantasy of him having sex with his lover, so to overcome the moment. When, in the Japanese tea room, Tang sings for him, he cries for his lost innocence. And decides to give a ring to her. Something to thank her to remember him that once he was innocent. In the end, you know that history will take care of him. But Tang's way stops here.
So these are my motivations.
As I told you, I very much respect all the different opinions.
Bye everyone,
Kat
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Info



Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Posts: 1691
Location: Hong Kong

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:45 am    Post subject:

Quote:
When, in the Japanese tea room, Tang sings for him, he cries for his lost innocence.

Hey Kat,

You can really read into the heart of the movie! Many people thought that Tony cried in the Japanese restaurant because he was moved by Tang Wei, but he actually cried for his innocence. (Tony told me personally Wink )

Quote:
When he has to confront an old schoolfriend he paralizes and has to concoct a fantasy of him having sex with his lover, so to overcome the moment.

And I like your interpretation on this part, I think you are right!
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katwoman64



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 662
Location: roma, italy

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:27 am    Post subject:

Thanks Info,
I just say silly, silly things.

Maybe I was helped from a good translation.
I've seen the film twice, in in italian and original language with subtitles, so to better understand Tony's acting (the italian chosen voice was different from Tony's, but the actor was very good and performed very close to the original, like a big dangerous appealing cat).
The infamous scene of the "rape", well, I've seen it more like a branding of Tang as his own. The violence is mostly intellectual. I can't really say "been there, done that", because it would be untrue, but the attitude, that I met more than once. It's a men thing, quite common indeed, when they take something that is hard to get. In this case he goes out of his comfort space and she's 25 years younger than he (he sees her as a symbol of innocence).
In the film everybody wears a mask. Pity for Joan Chen. Everytime she is on screen her presence "weights". You remeber all the play of looks while playing mahjong.
I found Tony's performance extremely difficult (and not because of sex) because he had to communicate mostly using actions as means and not the words. He transmitted an intense feeling of fear and of mistaken... no... hidden identities.
These human beings are the means for Ang Lee to give a large portrait (in italian we would call it affresco, like the "Ultima cena" of Leonardo da Vinci) of those years.
If you communicate to Tony, send him my thanks.
I don't want to bother him more than needed

A hug to you, you're everywhere, but you are always discreet
Kat
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Raphael



Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 44
Location: Paris-Metz

PostPosted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject:

Does anyone know what's the music played backstage on the gramophone just before the audience stand and shout 'China will not fall !' ?
It's not on the soundtrack cd. Maybe it's a patriotic tune
I'm curious since i've just heard it again.......
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Tony Obsessed



Joined: 18 Jul 2008
Posts: 348
Location: Cornwall, England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:33 am    Post subject:

I haven't see this film but I have a question concerning the use of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOFha17v1KY Zhou Xuan classic song. In the scene where Tang Wei "sings" the song to Tony, is it actually her voice or a professional singer? If Tang Wei is really singing, I must say I'm impressed.
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